Crazy is the new ‘bomb’
Professor Catherine Caldwell-Harris: Boston University - PsychologyShe’s bringing crazy back.
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Professor Catherine Caldwell-Harris: Boston University - PsychologyShe’s bringing crazy back.
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April 2nd, 2008 at 4:04 am
Wow. You sure showed those bored students… NOT!
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:27 am
this video sucks…..
April 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 am
Dear Scott and Bob,
You two are exactly the type of students under which this professor is trying to light a fire. On second thought, maybe she should not even try, and instead say: Ok guys! Fail! You’re both really REALLY Sad sacks!
April 2nd, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Leave us alone…Give us our C-grade so that we can forget about you and your silly lectures.
April 2nd, 2008 at 6:15 pm
To Bored Student #137—but isn’t there any other way that you can forget about professors and what are, in your opinion, their silly lectures? You can just drop the course, which I highly recommend. The professor in question, to her great credit, is trying to get you excited about something, but it seems that whatever it is is just not within your ability to appreciate. So do everybody a favor and scram. Take another course, like Sitting Sideways 101, or maybe that intercession course on Frowning in a Cool Way. Just don’t go somewhere, of your own accord, and sit in front of somone who’s paid to pay attention to you, and who apparently even wants to—why I can’t imagine—and say “leave us alone.” THAT’s silly.
April 2nd, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Sitting Sideways 101. That reminds me of one student who always positioned his chair sideways and never gave me eye contact. He was loud and friendly to the students both before and after class, so it wasn’t a psychological thing. His whole physical attitude bespoke his devil-may-care attitude about what I had to say in this mandatory course for majors. This was underscored by the jaunty way he wore his baseball cap–pulled over his eyes, covered by a sweatshirt hood. What bespoke his attitude more loudly, however, was his half-length final b*** s*** of a paper: Impact font instead of Times New Roman so as to swell the nonsense to its requisite number of pages. It gave me great joy to fail him.
April 3rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
In response to Alan Trevithick:
Let me first say that I appreciate your response…I was unsure if anyone actually reads these things outside of disgruntled students, and will post more comments now that I can count on some feedback.
My comment here yesterday was in reference to the fact that I am an average student trying to earn an average grade. I am not disruptive, I don’t sit sideways, and I generally have a smile on my face. I have a hard time with teachers who want everyone to “push themselves” and/or “go above the call of duty”. Learning institutions have C-grades for average students, and a student can earn his/her degree with C’s. Why is that so bad? It should be left up to the student whether or not they put in the extra effort to earn an A-grade.
Please don’t make it harder for the students who “just want to pass” by judging us as bad people, or undeserving of a passing grade simply because we have no desire to be “overachievers”. “C” means average, and there is nothing wrong with being average. Let us make our $30,000 per year, and yes…Leave us alone as long as we leave you alone.
In response to Ramón Raquello:
If the student you described performed under “passing” standards, yes of course you should have failed him. If his mannerisms bothered you, I wonder if you had kindly asked him to sit facing the front of the class, or to remove his hat and/or hood during class? If not, perhaps you should not be angry that he did. Also, I wonder why you felt “joy” in failing him. Did kids like that beat you up in high school, and now this is your chance to get them back?
April 3rd, 2008 at 4:58 pm
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:00 pm
as well as other things blatantly sexist.) It’s a stretch for a professor nowadays to impose etiquette lessons on a student. I think you’d agree. It certainly would demean the student whether done in front of the class or not. It’s not quite the same as giving the semi-annual “Its / It’s Lecture” to the class. Also, in my university, male and female head covering is worn for religious reasons sometimes. I feel it’s not my place to police that either.
That being said, this sidesaddler did B.S. work when he did work and thought he could just get by in the class, which was his intent. He played it all too close along the pass/fail border. The “joy” is an extreme term for some more complex emotion that I can perhaps express this way: “Satisfaction that those who actually did the work and learned something, and perhaps in some cases ‘faked it’ for a semester by sitting upright for the most part and trying, got more out of the course as evidenced by the passing grade, which was not just handed out to everybody who merely showed up, thereby making the grade and college credit given in fact worth something.”
I think if I had passed him, his classmates should have beaten me up.
April 3rd, 2008 at 5:01 pm
I don’t know what happened to the rest of that post. Sorry.
April 3rd, 2008 at 9:55 pm
This is actually pretty true. I and other students call one of our prof’s (Haller) crazy and nuts, but he’s actually a really good professor. He’s just a crazy dude.
April 3rd, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Bored Student #137-oh, lot’s of people read these-including, of course, your very own professors who you anonymously call of sorts of dreadful names and accuse of giving “silly lectures.” DIdn’t think of that? Anyway, you don’t convince me—you still don’t have to sign up, or stay in a class, if you find the lectures silly and just want to be left alone, and, if you stay, you certainly don’t need to write pointlessly nasty little posts. I’m not judging you as “bad people,” just recommending that if you’re not interested you should split, or at least avoid making unpleasant comments about something you apparently don’t really care about anyway. Others do. Don’t ruin their fun.
Ramon-about your sideways sitter—I had a class once where there were three such students and they always pulled their desks sideways, all aligned next to one another so they could talk together more conveniently. I generally left them alone, unless they got too loud and then I would bark at them “something to share with the class?” Which, in fact, everybody else rather enjoyed, and then they would shut up for a bit. Also, when I gave tests I had to very authoritatively suggest that they split up—”oh, oh!” they exclaimed, “ok, ok!” Genuine surprise and dismay, as though something incredibly unexpected had happened. Every time. I used to say to the rear of the class, as I prepared for this police work-”get ready, watch this.” It is interesting to look at.
April 4th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
In further response to Alan Trevithick:
“lot’s of people read these-including, of course, your very own professors who you anonymously call of sorts of dreadful names and accuse of giving “silly lectures.” DIdn’t think of that?”
For one, I have NEVER left a negative post of a teacher on this website, and consequently have NEVER called a professor “dreadful names”. Your “I know all, and you are small” attitude, and your tendency to make assumptions based upon no evidence is making look like quite a bitter person. In reference to my “silly lecture” comment, I have the right to label something silly on a website. I did not make this comment in class, or even to the instructors I believe give “silly lectures”. We have the right to free speech in America, and I would never try to take away your right to make assumptions about my behavior based upon nothing. I, in turn, reserve the right to point out how you are making self-serving (and false) comments such as the ones I had quoted above.
“Anyway, you don’t convince me—you still don’t have to sign up, or stay in a class, if you find the lectures silly and just want to be left alone, and, if you stay, you certainly don’t need to write pointlessly nasty little posts. I’m not judging you as “bad people,” just recommending that if you’re not interested you should split, or at least avoid making unpleasant comments about something you apparently don’t really care about anyway. Others do. Don’t ruin their fun.”
I did not intend to send the message that I was not interested in the classes that I enroll in, with a few (required for my major) exceptions.
“I have a hard time with teachers who want everyone to “push themselves” and/or “go above the call of duty”. Can you please address that directly? This was the point to my response to you, and would like feedback on that. My point is simple: As long as I perform at an average level, I have the same right to be in the classroom as anyone else. You are suggesting that because I do not strive to be an “A or B” student, I should drop the class…That is nonsense, and I am hoping that I am reading your intentions incorrectly.
April 4th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Hi bored student- if you haven’t called anyone dreadful names, good for you. Others, anonymous, as you are, on this very site, so indeed refer to their professors via the use of dreadful names and other hurtful language practices. I hope you join with me in excoriating all such behaviors. Unless, of course, there is no other way to make your point.
Now, if you tell someone that their work is silly—and a professor’s lectures are a good part of their work—that is a negative comment if anything ever was, and I hope that you now see this and will reject and denounce and disown and forever forswear such language, except, of course, in such cases where you really do think their work is silly.
Far be it from me to suggest that all professors always avoid silliness.
Finally, surely you can’t object if someone wants to nudge you to do a bit better than you think you can. That might mean that they think more highly of you than you do of yourself. And who knows, you may even deserve such consideration.
April 4th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
In even further response to Alan Trevithick:
I stand corrected on the “silly” comment. I should have said “Leave me alone…Give me my C-grade so that I can forget about you and your lectures that I think are silly”….haha…Expressing my opinion should be OK, right?
OK…I’m done with this debate unless you wanted to add something else. I don’t think you are wrong to think the way you do (there is no such thing as right or wrong, only social norms, but that is another debate)…I just see a lot of instructors treat “slacker” student unfairly. I am concerned for the normal students like myself who are treated with contempt by the instructors with a “give 110%, or you are wasting both of our time” attitude.
If a potential employer wants to sweat my GPA, or my transcript and say “I see that you received a C in such-and-such class…Why is that?”, I don’t want to work for a company with that culture. I do not define myself by my career, and a job for me is simply a way to pay the bills. I went back to school after working full-time for 10 years after high school, I know what the “real world” is like. They want you to work, not take tests.
April 4th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
just kiss the profs butt & get an A plus
April 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
To Bored Student #137:
Grades have different meaning in high school and college. At a good university, the grade C should only be given to “students who are trying really hard but don’t cut the mustard”.
By your own admission, you do not fit that criteria. Some professors will even fail students who are trying really hard, because they think they are not trying hard enough. You should consider yourself lucky that you aren’t in that kind of class.
It is perfectly ethical to fail a slacker, because that person is taking up a slot at the school that some other hard-working student failed to get. Have you ever thought about that? You don’t need to go to a respectable university to make 30K a year. You could have gone to community college.
If you were failed out of your university, then that would make room for another student who is willing to try harder. You should never forget that your education is a privilege, not a right.
You were admitted based upon your potential, and if you aren’t living up to that potential, the university has made a bad investment!
April 5th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
In response to Mark,
To say that it is ethical to fail a slacker is the biggest heap of non-sense that I have ever heard. Students, no matter how hard they try, should be graded fairly and objectively based on the content of what they have turned in. To say otherwise, is completely unethical, because then favoritism and the like become ever more present. That is the real problem with teachers, and even colleges, favoritism towards specific groups is hindering what college is truly meant for, LEARNING.
April 5th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I completely agree with Mark. Leave room for students who do want to learn and who want to be there. As I have mentioned in another post, it is unfair of a professor to pass a student who will not know enough of the material to be up to date in the next level of the course. I believe we should be graded on our efforts as well as out abilities, to an extent. Obviously if you don’t try and you are brilliant and make an A, you deserve to pass. But if you do not try and barely pass then you are a waste of the instructor’s time, the university’s space and money (ESPECIALLY if you are a receiver of grants, financial aid, or scholarships) and the other students’ time and space. It really bother’s me to know that a student who doesn’t care and doesn’t want to learn and do well is preventing me from taking a class or perhaps getting into a college!
If you are not motivated, go to a Community College. While I highly repsect CC (I go to one now) and recognize that of course there are several motivated and excellent students there, it is a better place for someone who is wasting time and money.
April 6th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
As a 41-year-old student who has returned to college (community) after a 22-year hiatus, I am clearly on the side of the professors.
Granted, students do have “freedom” of speech, but I think today’s students are definitely lacking in understanding several things. One, they do not recognize that professors might just be smarter than they. If a student thinks that they have one up on their prof, then I suggest a battle of wits in front of class. Second, many of “today’s generation” have the “I deserve it” mentality. They think that by just attending class they deserve a good grade. If I’m guilty of ageism, so be it. There is a sad lack of respect in the current generation compared to mine (not to mention those before!).
I also agree with those above that, if you don’t like the class, drop it. If you are wasting state or federal money, you’d be better off not at college. I’d love to be able to study at Boston University! If you don’t want to be there, give me your money. I’ll be happy to take your place.
April 7th, 2008 at 12:04 am
I’m a 42 year old student returning to school after a 16 year hiatus. I’ve noticed a new generation of teachers who seem to care deeply for their students. This is a far cry from the professors I’ve encountered years ago. But I do notice the most condescending instructors were lecturers. I wonder why? Perhaps their attitude towards their students prevented them from receiving good reviews, and thus, preventing tenure.
In the years that I’ve been back in school, I’ve noticed that the “older” students were the most confrontational with their instructors. Most of these students were in their 40s, had years of work experience, and felt confident enough to challenge their professors. Students in their 20s tended to be inconfident, shy, and rarely spoke their mind in class. Let’s not start a generational war. Unless, you’re trolling for one.
April 7th, 2008 at 10:39 am
I’m a 55 year old student returning to school for the third time. Krystal is correct about “older” students having the confidence to confront professors. I have come across arrogance in attitudes from professors and TAs to the point of abuse. My first-year classmates were thrilled that I brought an abusive prof to the disciplinary committee. He was burned out and doesn’t teach anymore. Then again my last prof loved my proofreading and comments about bringing his readings up-to-date. You go to school to learn. It’s not written that the prof has to be the only teacher.
April 8th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
In response to all ….
April 8th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
April 8th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
since it wont let me put i all in ill put it in sections
April 8th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
I think most of you have missed the point. College is not just a medium through which a better pay check comes, it a time for learning (which you all seem to grasp), expression and be enveloped but new idea (some you will like and some you will not like, such as a class with silly lectures).
April 8th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
First off i like to say to Ramon
You should be ashamed to find any joy in failing a kid out of a class. And I’m not saying that he didn’t deserve it because from what i read he seemingly did. However in failing him, he failed to learn anything from the class and in that regards alone merits sadness in not being able to pass your knowledge along. Do not interpret this as you in some way fail because that is clearly not the case. Yet, to feel joy for this is shameful. And do not try to respond that it is a complex feeling of the other passing the class. The students are individuals not a group. If they were a group they would be graded as such. So please do not try and pass it off as merely such, when you so easy belittle the student as an individual. If you honestly believe you can still do this then I question your ethics. Also if you wish to enforce “etiquette lessons” just simple state it in your syllabus, I have had multiple class were hats and other forms etiquette were enforce and allowed on religious observances. If student are aware of these simple classroom etiquettes prior too it is not demeaning to the student to enforce them, unless done in a demeaning fashion which by your pervious comment is something I wouldn’t put passed you. And if you don’t feel it is your place to police them, then do not argue on the student mannerisms; if you refuse to take action then do not complain of the in-action taken by the students (i.e. wearing hats).
April 8th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
In response to Alan,
You make a good point that if the class is bothersome or in your eyes a waste of time then you should withdraw from the class. If people walk away from anything from the argument I hope it is the fact that you do have a choice in college, and that is the beauty of college. And if the class is required for the major then take it from another professor. And if you find yourself uninterested in all the classes or a majority of the class for your major and the professors teaching them, then one need to step back and critically look at one future in that major. However is for some reason you enjoy most of the major classes and run into a required class taught by only one professor then you got to suck it up. As for the comment made by students on this website or even to the face of a professor, I find it hard to believe I have to say this but Grow Up. Calling a professor boring or his lectures silly is in no harm to anyone, or any different than a professor ridiculing a student. I find it a bit ridiculous that you take so harshly the comment about professor yet feel nothing for when calling a student “sideway sitter”. I quote you “I hope you join with me in excoriating all such behaviors.” If you truly believe this then I implore you to lead by example. I however hope you do not because expression is very important part of college for both the student and professors. The advice you need to take is Grow Up, this isn’t a popularity contest its college; not every student is going to like or respect you, just as not every professor likes or respects their students. It’s a two way road.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
To Mark and JJ
Mark honestly I don’t know where to begin. Your moral and ethical compass is so jaded that I don’t think any amount of writing could change your mind. I can only hope that you do not actually believe this. The point of a college class is to present the material as a whole and then un-objectively grade the student on how well they learned the material. Grades should not be give by how well the professor “thinks” they are doing but by how well they have “shown” the professor through exams and papers. If a student is trying hard and still not performing well then that is a matter that need to be evaluated on a case by case basis to determine the cause of problem. As for the claims to some students are in some unworthy of the privilege and I do agree college it is a privilege is just demeaning and spiteful. A student failing out of college is different than a student failing a class. And the system is set they way it should be if a student fails out of college is does make room for others to enter, they are not going to deem a student unfit or a bad investment because of a failed class or receives a less than satisfactory grade. Each student is evaluated and accepted or rejected, be the mere acceptance by the administration you have no right to deem anyone unfit for the privilege that they achieved. If their actions are unsuitable then the university will remove them and others take their place, but the student must be given the chance. JJ as for scholarship most are regulated by GPA or year requirements. I hope both of you understand the importance of giving a student the chance to make or break themselves.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Cynthia, Krystal, and Susan
First I want to say I’m amazed at your drive for education by returning for schooling. And I’m sure that your hiatuses were for many reasons, I congratulate you on pushing yourselves. To Cynthia I am 21 years old and still got a lot to learn, but something I learned from my grandfather who is now 89, so it’s safe to say I have bridged your generation gap, is Give respect to those who respect you. The people are no more or less respectful today than they were in my grandfathers 20’s. I always love the “In my day” philosophy and I’m sure some day ill use it, but truth is, the world is drastically different from that of 70 years ago and even so for 20 years ago. Challenges should not be viewed as a sign of disrespect. If not for the challenges of conventional ways of thinking nothing new would be learned. A student can still challenge a professor and respect him. As for professor are smarter than their students has nothing to do with it, a professor has a particular set of knowledge that doesn’t mean a student couldn’t be smarter or even more the case smarter in a different area. Here one that actually happened to me, Put an English professor in an economic course and he/she isn’t going to start teaching us about the money market or the affects of global GDPs. Does this mean she is stupid, absolutely not. Intelligence is a broad term encompassing many things. Bottom line student should challenge professors as long as it is not hindering the rest of the classes learning, it allows for further reasoning and discovery. To Krystal and Susan, Great I love that you’re challenging the current trains of thought; it is the root of all learning. I will continue to do the same and I hope Cynthia will join in as well. Because I’ll be glad to say back in my day the student and professor challenge each other and both benefited. I know a little corny but you get my point.
April 8th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Lastly to Bored Student
there isn’t anything wrong with just getting by as long as you are trying your best. If a C is what you can make, then earn the C, but never expect anyone to give you anything. Earn the C and then no one can say you didn’t deserve it because you earned it. Continue to tell professors that their lectures are silly and classes boring, because your expression is a freedom that shouldn’t be silenced. Challenge professors and social norms to create more paradigms and knowledge for future generations, but more importantly is for you to be yourself. Whatever you do earn it, don’t take anything thats given to you cause that can be taken away.
To Brand … Spot ON!!!!!!
April 9th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
For Acope-are you down by now? You sounded really keyed up, or wired, or a little stoned, or maybe tripped out, or possibly manic, or maybe any number of other highly charged states. Lke, I thought my posts were too long, but you’re totally out of control.
April 9th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I disagree with those who think that students should be punished for not trying their best.
I for one made it through college with a C average, yet I was capable of so much more. Everyone, including me, knew it. But I also built an airplane, taught myself to play several musical instruments, and earned a pilot’s license and that was just freshman year! I was after the paper, plain and simple, and that’s what I paid for - the degree, not the education. Besides, there was no way I would compete with the pre-med students who stayed up all hours, had no lives, and in many many cases cheated on their exams.
Time to get off your soapboxes and quit judging us as ’slackers’. I am now a Dean at a technical career college and we do not stress grades - we stress attendance! THAT’s what people are looking for in an employee - it does not matter how much talent you have if you are not there to use it!
And I PROMISE you, if you speak to any one of my coworkers past or present (I’ve been there nearly ten years) not one of them would see me as a slacker. SHAME ON YOU!!! Quit dousing yourself in self-importance… as teachers, we are a means to an end for most of our students and nothing more.
I am sorry but I stumbled on this site and was appalled at what I read - I could not possibly leave without sharing my opinion.
LJ
April 9th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
I disagree with those who think that students should be punished for not trying their best.
I for one made it through college with a C average, yet I was capable of so much more. Everyone, including me, knew it. But I also built an airplane, taught myself to play several musical instruments, and earned a pilot’s license and that was just freshman year! I was after the paper, plain and simple, and that’s what I paid for - the degree, not the education. Besides, there was no way I would compete with the pre-med students who stayed up all hours, had no lives, and in many many cases cheated on their exams.
Time to get off your soapboxes and quit judging us as ’slackers’. I am now a Dean at a technical career college and we do not stress grades - we stress attendance! THAT’s what people are looking for in an employee - it does not matter how much talent you have if you are not there to use it!
And I PROMISE you, if you speak to any one of my coworkers past or present (I’ve been there nearly ten years) not one of them would see me as a slacker. SHAME ON YOU!!! Quit dousing yourself in self-importance… as teachers, we are a means to an end for most of our students and nothing more.
I am sorry but I stumbled on this site and was appalled at what I read - I could not possibly leave without sharing my opinion.
LJ
April 10th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Acope, I explained what “joy” meant. Read it again. I did not fail him “out of a class” [sic]. He failed himself. And, by the way, he did learn something in that class, possibly the most important lesson of his life: not to B.S. a task. When one catches a student cheating (which happens quite rarely), there is some notion operating that the instructor is maintaining the integrity of the degree for the other students. When a seemingly smart student fails a course, the instructor is saying to the vast majority of students (in this case about 24), “I value the time and effort you put into this course. I value your work. I recognize the intellectual and personal progress that you made in this course.” Think of this, Acope, as a positive signal to the masses as opposed to a negative sign to the one. Remember this the next time your local politician is found with his fly open or with his hand in the fiscal cookie jar. I don’t care so much that Larry Craig and Elliot Spitzer are punished as much as I’m heartened that there is a standard, a consistency of thought and action that most pols engage in that reflects a somewhat level playing field.
Students are a group insofar as any group is a group. My exams are geared to the group, and my grading of essays and papers is curved. Meaning, if I were at Harvard, I would hold the students to performance standard higher than the one to which I must hold them at my first-tier “master’s university”. Don’t think that your “A” would be an “A” at Yale. Don’t think that your “C” would be a “C” at my college. I never belittled the student either in public or private. By his demeanor, he belittled himself. And, honestly, his peers thought him to be a faux macho idiot.
You didn’t understand part of my post if you think I want to enforce “etiquette lessons.” You had better re-read my post carefully. I applaud your attempt at engaging in logical intellectual discussion. Keep up the good work! Always be reading well written expository prose, and always re-read and proof your work.
April 10th, 2008 at 11:19 am
When I was teaching at a state university, I taught knowing not every student would be as capable as I would like–either coming into class or at the end of each term. (And btw, I was a “lecturer” because I didn’t have a Ph.D., not because I was a ****** teacher. It’s the difference between a nurse practitioner and an M.D. You can be excellent or horrible at what you do, regardless of job title.)
My goals as an English comp. instructor were
1. to teach students to *successfully* communicate their own ideas to someone else.
2. to engage students who were either afraid of or distainful of English by showing them how relevant this “core” class was to their lives–in school and in “the real world.”
3. to have fun teaching my subject so that my students could see how enjoyable a subject can be, even if they’ve never liked it before.
I’d gotten as much from my undergradutate experience, so I wanted to pass it along. And for the most part, for most of my students, I feel as though I succeeded. The students who so stubbornly choose to remain stupid (because they think it’s cute, they’re scared of having any potential, or they think that’s what’s expected of them by friends/classmates/society, or whatever their problems were), wore me down. And quickly. I quit two years ago and haven’t taught since. I still don’t understand why every class has a ******* who thinks it’s cute to, every day, ask “So we’re getting out early, right?” or “Let’s not talk about that because so many people are absent. Let’s just go, and we can talk about it tomorrow.” These people and the side-sitters/hat-wearers/personal conversationists/make-up appliers/text messagers/chronic late arrivals tended to fail my class if they were repeat offenders, and not because I had it out for them. You can only ask so many times, you can only warn so many times, and you can only threaten so many times before you realize you’re better off teaching rocks.
Rude people who repeatedly prefer to wallow in ignorance cannot pass a class of any quality, taught by anyone with the least bit of respect for her job, her subject, or her students. All students have “standards” and expectations for their professors, including such rude students, but when a professor has expectations for them, some students rise to the challenge and succeed, some rise to the challenge and don’t quite make it but have been sincere in their effort, and some simply don’t care and choose failure.
So yes, an instructor who is fun and nice and who genuinely wants her students to do well in a class/college can rejoice when a student who has been disrepectful all semester fails. The times I failed such students merely confirmed to me that I was doing my job well because I had tried and tried to get through to a student who clearly wanted to fail. Whenever a student who genuinely tried but could not pass my class failed, I was always sad. But I never passed someone who could not communicate their ideas on paper–and I’m not a strict grammarian–because passing such a student along would only set him/her up for greater failure in the future. They had to repeat in order to better their skills. Clearly, teachers in their pasts had failed to respect them in this way, and college is a hard time to begin learning your native language. Beginning-of-semester F students who improved their skills enough to pass with even a D made me happier than A students who pased with As. Grades tend to match effort. Effort comes with interest. Interest is shown through respect for the instructor, the class, and classmates.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Amen, Sister EN. We hope we haven’t lost you forever. Come back! Please.
April 13th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Landon, I think you just described yourself as a slacker, just not in certain departments. What you accomplished is commendable and obviously you are a very hard worker. However, that doesn’t change the fact that by your own admission you were a slacker in some (or at least one) area. I think it is ok to allow this label to only apply to certain aspects of a person.
I am not referring to the students who only don’t pay attention in a couple of their classes, but show potential in others and are obviously working hard in other areas in the school. I know this cannot be proven, but it is the students who don’t care in any of their classes that bother me, the ones who have no reason to be there, no goals. I’m not talking about the students who don’t know what they are working towards exactly, who are undeclared majors and such- they are still taking classes to determine what they want to do and still care about the classes, or at least some of them.
I also dont view students being flunked out because they do not try as punishment, although I suppose they would. I see it as what you would do if you are a manager of a company. You have a worker who does the bare minimum, and there are others out there who are willing to do more. You don’t fire the person who doesn’t work as hard to punish them, you do it because there is someone more qualified. I am not saying college is like a job (at least not in this sense) but that is how I view being allowed to stay in school. I think you should have to work to deserve it.
I guess I cannot technically say that students who do not try should be flunked out, because that cannot be proven.
As for scholarships, there are scholarships available for soooooo much, and yes, many are regulated by grades and such, but not all require 3.5 GPAs! There are scholarships based upon more than just merit, such as race, religion, income, etc. Plus, there are students who are taking up space because their parents made them go to college and paid for it, when they couldn’t care less.
April 13th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
As for Ramon feeling joy about failing a student. I had a teacher who was so terrible that so many of us complained that he lost his job. I was not pleased that he was out of a job, but I was glad that he wasn’t teaching anymore. Similarly, I am sure Ramon was not glad that the student failed for the sake of failing, but glad that he got what was coming to him. Don’t most us feel this way at some point of out life, especially towards those who made out lives more difficult.
Furthermore, I can imagine that it felt good to get to say (figuratively) to a student, “You didn’t do the work and yet you expected to pass. You expected me to let you slip by while everyone else worked hard. But you were wrong. I will not do that to my other students, and now you must learn to live with the consequences of your actions.”
April 13th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Kinda been out of the debate for awhile I’ve been swamped with classes and i was in the Smokie Mountains and for those of you who care to know. They are absolutely amazing i suggest everyone see them at least once.
In response to Alan,
No i wasn’t anything of those things. I was merely expressing my opinion and i will admit got carried away. So for that and all of you that took the time to read those responses thank you. Well there wasn’t anything else to your response but ill keep an eye out.
In response to Ramon
There seems to be a bit of confusion. First the point of confusion are what you meant by joy and etiquette lessons. In my second “attempt” as i’m sure you will call it I hope that maybe you will, as you have told me to do reread both mine and your posts.
Meaning of joy:
In your second response you said and i quote “The “joy” is an extreme term for some more complex emotion”. You go to give an example of how the emotion is complex (for those playing catch up). Your assuming that i didnt understand what your were trying to express and in reading my response must have neglected the portions were i both said failing the student is what he earned, “And I’m not saying that he didn’t deserve it because from what i read he seemingly did”. And also that you as a professor did nothing wrong i quote myself “. Do not interpret this as you in some way fail because that is clearly not the case.” As for me misunderstand
April 13th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
As for me misunderstanding what you meant by a complex emotion. This confusion can be sum up very easily. I understand exactly what you were trying to say about how it is a complex emotion. I was merely try to illustrate to you, which i though i did pretty well but obviously not well enough, how your explanation fell short so in using a language i know you will understand. I’m saying your interpretation of that emotion is as you like to say BS. As a professor you should be objective to each student as an individual. Now if you cant comprehend that simple ethic and professional responsibility, then just stop reading now. Each student is responsible for his own work, the other fellow classmates do not affect his/hers grades (unless in group activities , which should not make up the majority of the class work). I exam may be gear in a class to the groups overall workload, but grades are evaluated on an individual basis. So as a professor when grading the “side sitter” on his BSed final you decided to fail him. At this point i have no problem with your logic. he performed badly so he fail, spot on. Now if you fail him base on his individual performance (as you should) than the emotion you feel about failing him should be based on his individual performance. If your not basing your emotions and judgments on a objective and individual basis than i say as i already have said I question your ethics. So either your just very unethical or you got called out by Student on how shameful it was to feel joy in failing a student and in order to save face you took a page out of the “side sitter” play book and BSed a response. And since i don’t an unethical professor last long in the academic world im gonna go with the latter.
As for the etiquette lessons it was you who brought up your distaste for the “sidesitter” etiquette “His whole physical attitude bespoke his devil-may-care attitude about what I had to say in this mandatory course for majors. This was underscored by the jaunty way he wore his baseball cap–pulled over his eyes, covered by a sweatshirt hood.” I thought my point on etiquette was pretty clear as well, to quote myself “And if you don’t feel it is your place to police them, then do not argue on the student mannerisms; if you refuse to take action then do not complain of the in-action taken by the students”. I understand you dont want to enforce “etiquette” what you need to understand is if you dont want to enforce it, then don’t complain about it when student are doing things you do not like.
Finally as for belittling students it might be the most pompous and supercilious comment i have ever heard. You label the student as a side sitter then claim it is the student fault for the label to which you provided him with. And you have no basis to say how his peers viewed him, tho some of his peer might have negative views of him that does not mean many or a majority of them hold this view. This is discrimination in its purest form, maybe you should spend your free time sitting in a social psychology class learning about Blaming the Victim and Just World Hypothesis instead of posting on message board trying to create a personification of elitist. Your student may have deserved the grade he received but he does not deserved the negative stereotype that you helping build.
April 19th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
She looks like she’s doing a SNL skit in the last one.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am
I had to scroll back to the top to remind myself what started this. Wasn’t this a post about, “Professor Catherine Caldwell-Harris: Boston University - Psychology-She’s bringing crazy back?” Wow, lots of fodder here for days & days of unrelated conversation.
I was never able to go to college until I was 41 years old. I wanted to more than I can say, but that’s life. I’m now 47 and still only half way toward a BA in Music. I have to work nights as a cop, go to court during the day, care for a wife and 3 boys, school is going slow, but it’s going.
I like hard-ass professors. My Theory professor was bitched about constantly by others. Theory 1 & 2, I got B’s to the average C’s & D’s. Theory 3 & 4 I got A’s to the average C’s & D’s. I wear these marks like a badge of honor. I KNOW I earned them and it’s a feeling that surpasses explanation. The same was true in Aural Skills, which some schools call Musicianship & Ear Training, badges of honor. They may not mean much to some, but to me they’re great accomplishments that fill me with pride and confidence that no one can take away from me or downplay.
My Viola professor and Chamber music professor, (yep, a cop that plays viola…laugh it up…), were more “coddling” in nature, but were still complained about as being “bitchy and hard-assed” by most other students. It was the same with my Philharmonic/Chamber Orchestra Conductor, head of the Strings Program. I saw him as jovial, engaging, concerned, dedicated, amazingly talented, and passionate about his craft and a real “no player left behind” attitude. But still, he too had his detractors. Yep, I got embarrassed when he stopped the piece to correct my bowing or hand position, but I sucked it up and got continually better.
All students have good days and bad, same with teachers, (and cops…). All have their own style of doing what they do and what’s going on inside of us is always a matter of perceptions and perspectives that change from observer to observer.
My point, if I even had one, is this; if you’re a student that wants to sell yourself short by just getting by, that’s your right, it’s your money (or daddy’s) but don’t be surprised when a dedicated professional educator has a problem with it or tries to change it. Or if an old guy like me just shakes his head in bewilderment at all the achievements and sense of self worth you’re flushing down the toilet.
A final thought on what “I thought” the original topic was…”The Crazy Lady of Boston U.” She strikes me as one of those hard-assed dedicated professionals that just gets a kick out of watching her students achieve. Plus, “have you guys LOOKED at her?” I couldn’t quit staring at her long enough to GET a passing grade! (I’m old, I’m allowed to make sexist remarks, I’m glad I have ugly teachers or I’d never pass a class!)
April 30th, 2008 at 11:36 am
yo Mozart, we didn’t ask for your life story lol
April 30th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Musicians are more open to criticism than most of the human population. Their parents actually pay for them to take lessons and to be weekly humiliated by a teacher/master. This creates a constant struggle for perfection within the individual from a young age. There are always great musicians out there we can listen to who amaze us and, at the same time, make us feel like ****. Music performance is at once an exhilarating and humbling experience. It prepares you well for life. Mozart 41 (Jupiter), in playing music, you’ve ***** the nectar of the immortals.
And, yo, uh, Nicholas, like, uh, don’t you have like, uh, finals, uh, like totally coming up like soon, dude? Shouldn’t you be like studying like for your, uh, business administration exam, yo?
April 30th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
That word, btw, was the past participle of “drink.” I don’t know what this program was thinking.
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Ramon;
Thanks for your kind response. (Jupiter’s my favorite) Yo Nicholas, nobody asked for your two cents, do what Ramon says….lol
June 28th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
She’s like the secret love-child of Anthony Hopkin’s Hannibal Lector and Jodie Foster’s Clarisse Starling.
But in nice way of course.
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I was just reading these and getting a real kick out of them. First off, Acope: As one living in NC, the Smokey Mountains ARE breathtaking. Glad you enjoy them (my future home!!) And secondly, I think we are forgetting one key thing here: Respect. You may not like the professor teaching, but at least, respect their position. They are there for a reason. To the kids with the sideways chairs, you’re just wasting Daddy’s money…Get out and get a real job. For those working for a ‘C’ grade, fine, do that, then cut. Don’t dwell. You got what you wanted; whether the professor was to your liking. Leave a nasty comment about me; that’s cool. They are funny anyways. Anyhoo, I have to get back to work…lots of deadbeat Baby Daddies to arrest!!
August 3rd, 2008 at 7:06 pm
So, Bored Student, am I to understand that you’re satisfied with mediocrity? That you feel no shame in just passing, not giving a sh*t, and collecting your barely worked for C?
Oh, my God. Please tell me you’re not going into any service industry or any related field that requires you to work with people. Because if, with the scope of your job, you treat people with the same bored, mindless, just do enough to pass mentality you have now I assure you you’re in for a lot of misery.
Quit wasting the university’s time. Someone didn’t get the spot you’re taking up, using so frivolously, and disrespecting.
August 5th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Wow! Colleges need more Professors lke her! To bad she does no teac at IUP!
August 17th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Wow, professor so and so, you should not have such emotions–negative or positve–toward your students. To guard against the prejudice you obviously have toward your student–who may well deserve it (but that is beside the point)–you should begin blind grading. By that I don’t mean the scarily common practice of just assigning grades arbitrarily, or only based on previous written performance. You should be careful to have each of your students submit her papers with her identification only in numeric, university recognized format, or at worst with her full name on the front page which you may (looking away) fold back. In other words, you shouldn’t know who got what grade, and the delight you evidently take in assigning a particular student a poor grade suggests, to me, unfairness in the grade assigning process itself.
Justin Jeffrey
Duke University
August 17th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I forgot to mention that my perspective is that of a former student as well as a current professor of philosophy. I think that matters–just in this last year I’ve made the transition from student to professor and it is easy for faculty to forget the importance of dealing with their students in a way that they (pardon the plural) themselves would have wanted to be dealt with. Try that blind grading! It sounds like you are much too involved emotionally with your students’ grades!
Justin Jeffrey
Duke University
August 17th, 2008 at 11:52 am
As a professor at Duke University, I am ashamed by my poor grammar in the previous post. Still, the professor in question needs to get her emotions out of the game by grading in a way that does not allow her to grade upon her prejudices. It’s something we all need, of course, and I would be as likely as anyone else to grade a student based upon irrelevant impressions or perceived slights if not for the method of blind grading. At its best, this method takes away that chance to take revenge–consciously or not–upon our students. Its simply a matter of professionalism.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Are you ashamed of “Its simply a matter of professionalism” as well? Lighten up, kid. It’s all a game.
August 19th, 2008 at 6:01 am
Umm…..were you trying to concede the argument? Because I think you just did.
August 19th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Umm . . . “It’s” =/= “Its” You don’t have to feel shame (the fear of disgrace). Just proofread the stuff you post, if you think it will undergo the scrutiny of Prof. Sayre-McCord. Odds are, however, that it won’t. You have nothing to be ashamed of on this site. As the Philosopher says, “Shame only becomes youth,” which is why I called you “kid.”
August 19th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I am a 48 year old who went back to college (Cleveland State Univ) just as a personal goal (I work full term in my own business where I make a great income - so it’s not for career advacment, etc.)
I am stunned at how little students work. Regardless of whether it’s marketing, anthropology or microbiology most students in my classes miss lectures, actually sleep, don’t buy the textbooks, don’t do assigned readings, log into blackboard, don’t work well in groups, etc.
I think the good professors get disccouraged and cynical and the bad ones don’t care and are just happy to get paid. Maybe CSU is not representative; but if it is I am not surprised by the gap I see on ratemyprofessors.com between students perceptions and reality.